Talkin' Guitars With Marty Stuart

Born in Philadelphia, Mississippi, Stuart began his professional career at the ripe old age of 13 ad mandolin player for Lester Flatt. He has also done stints with the likes of Doc Watson, Earl Scruggs, Vassar Clements and Johnny Cash. Marty's self-produced first album, Busy Bee Cafe, is on independent label Sugar Hill. His major label debut, Marty Stuart on CBS came in 1986. In 1990, he signed with his current label, MCA, releasing Hillbilly Rock. Awarded a Grammy in 1992 for his vocal duet with Travis Tritt for "The Whiskey Ain't Workin'," the two embarked on their controversial (only because of the name) "No Hats Tour." His first brush with heavy metal (a Gold Record) came in 1993 for This One's Gonna Hurt You followed by his current release, the critically acclaimed Love and Luck.

After his segment of the show was over, like the trouper he is, Marty hung around backstage to watch the other performers. On his way out, I cornered him and asked if he'd like to do an interview for Vintage Guitar. He said "I'd love to" and the following is the result:

VG: What got you into the old guitar thing?

Marty: The sound of them, physically. I think there are a lot of great guitars being built today. All of them look great but there's something about vintage guitars; they've done their homework (laughs). Obviously, you have older wood to deal with. Perhaps they weren't turning them out at such a fast rate of speed. At one point in time, I think a little more care went into the craftsmanship of them. And I just like the soul of old guitars.

VG: You have some very historic guitars, starting with the Clarence White Telecaster. How did you come about getting it?

Marty: Clarence's brother, Roland got me my job in Nashville with Lester Flatt when I was a teenager. They had a band in California called the Kentucky Colonels in the early Sixties, which was a bluegrass band. Roland would play me records and tapes of him and Clarence when they had their band together. At this point, of course, Roland was with Lester Flatt and Clarence was with the Byrds. I just never heard anybody play a guitar like that before. He [White] played, like fiddle tunes on a guitar, flat picking.

Roland would have all these records laying around and I'd get into them, like Sweetheart of the Rodeo, Dr. Byrds and Mr. Hyde, The Byrds Untitled, Farther Along and some Wynn Stuart session stuff that Clarence was doing. I'd never heard anybody play guitar from that approach before. He totally captivated my attention and became my guitar hero. Him and Luther Perkins and [steel legend] Ralph Mooney. I followed Clarence's career and I got me a pull-string; got Shot Jackson down at Sho Bud guitars to build me one and I started trying to copy 'Clarence Licks.' After he died, the guitar went to his wife Susie. It just kind of sat around in an attic for about seven years. I got a job with Johnny Cash and I needed a great electric guitar, and Susie sent me a letter telling me she was wanting to sell a couple of Clarence's guitars. So I took every bit of the money that I had made and was prepared to mortgage the farm (laughs) to get this guitar, and Susie sold it to me.

VG: Does it have the original B-Bender on it?

Marty: That guitar has the original dirt on it. I've never touched one thing about that guitar, except [when] I was out at Ralph Mooney's house a couple of years ago. We were jammin' in his garage one night and he was doing this incredible lick where he lowered his 'E' string, or his top string, a half-step. I said I wish I could do that and he said, 'You can.' So the next thing I know, we had Clarence [Marty names his guitars accordingly] strung in about 1,400 pieces and me and Moon were trying to figure out how to put a palm pedal on the guitar to lower the string. We got it figured out, but we really couldn't pull it across. So I got a guy named Duane Marrs, who builds Marrs Steel Guitars here in Nashville, to put a palm pedal on it. That's the only alteration that's ever been done to that guitar.

After I got him to put it on there, I just wanted to play with someone to see if it would work. I knew it would work on, like, real traditional country. So I got booked on a Charley Pride session last year and used it and it just rang like a bell! (laughs). I was so proud to have that guitar do something else. It's truly one of the most versatile Telecasters I've ever played. You can line 50 Telecasters up in a row and this guitar is just head and shoulders above them all--you know, I've got a warehouse full of Teles! It plays real warm jazz stuff, it plays great blues, has a great solid Strat sound and it has just the best Bakersfield sound you've ever heard.

VG: Someone told me it is two guitars which have both been sawed in half, sandwich style.

Marty: No, there's just a hollow cap on the back of it. It's like half again the size of the original body. It's just a hollow piece with a piece of pegboard-like stuff. The question has always been, 'Doesn't that get heavy?' I say, 'Not as heavy as a sledge hammer or a shovel.' (laughing).

VG: The Fender Custom Shop recently issued a 'Clarence White' model designed after it, how did that come about?

Marty: I was on tour out in California and Fred Stuart [Fender] had invited me and my band to come down and tour the Fender facility. When we got down there, I told him I'd bring that old Clarence guitar 'cause he had built a couple B-Benders before. So I left the guitar with Fred for a little while and he took all the specs off of it and took photographs, the idea being that they were going to do perhaps a couple Clarence guitars, which I thought was wonderful! Financially, I had nothing to do with it, would never think of that. But Clarence's family--I think his daughter Michelle--has seen some rewards off of that. It gives me a good feeling to know that there are a few more people out there that know about him.

There's a kid named Greg whose Mom brings him around--he's like 12, 13 years old--and boy, he's serious about the guitar. I mean he's passionate about the guitar! He came up and told me that he'd saved up his money and bought a Clarence guitar. When I see one kid like that get a hold of it and figure out how to work it, that really makes me feel good. Chances are that's his first real good guitar, so that makes me feel good to see things like that happen.

VG: You recently acquired Wayne Moss' Jazzmaster, that guitar's been on a lot of records hasn't it?

Marty: I think Wayne is probably Nashville's answer to what Roy Nichols was to the West coast. Licks like the hook lick on Waylon Jennings' 'Only Daddy That'll Walk The Line' or the Roy Orbison song, 'Pretty Woman'--he was one of the guitar players on that lick. 'Almost Persuaded' and all the things that he did with Barefoot Jerry, I just think Wayne's one of the greatest guitar players on some of those songs and it really is an honor to have that guitar.

VG: Hank Williams Sr.'s Martin D-45 came in a trade with Johnny Cash?

Marty: Bocephus [Hank Williams, Jr.] gave it to Cash, and I traded him a guitar that I had bought off of Merle Travis' widow Dorothy--a D-28 that said 'TRAVIS' in the neck. Johnny Cash was just getting into a little Travis guitar at that time and (laughing) he said, 'I've got to have your Travis guitar' and I said, 'No you can't have my Travis guitar.' He said, 'Go to the museum and pick out something; you can have your pick.' I called him and said, 'I found it, I'll take Hank's guitar.' He said, 'No, you can't have Hank's guitar!' I said, 'Well, if you want my Travis guitar, that's what it's gonna take,' so that's how we wound up swapping. That Travis guitar is in his museum and Hank's is in my place.

VG: You also own Lester Flatt's 1950 D-28.

Marty: Lester played only about [counting] one, two, only about five guitars in his career. I think the most important one--Keith Whitley was sold an old Herringbone that Lester played in the later part of his career, then Lester went to the D-35 for a minute, but the main guitar Lester ever played is this one. It's called the Lester Flatt L-5. It's the one he used on most of the famous Flatt and Scruggs recordings and on the 'Beverly Hillbillies' series.

It has a real weird pickguard on it because the front of it was butchered up so bad. Apparently, Uncle Josh [Graves] took it down there [to] Shot Jackson of Sho Bud--who was known for pretty gaudy pickguards, evidently--and had it fixed. It has 'L-5' in the fingerboard. My understanding is that it represents Mike Longworth. It was Longworth's fifth repair job. He [Longworth] lived around Chattanooga, Tennessee and was apparently a fan of Flatt and Scruggs. When they would do their television shows, Longworth would show up; he was friends with the band. Uncle Josh took care of the guitars, so apparently there was some work that needed to be done and he [Longworth] went home and added some inlay in the neck and one of those pieces was the L-5, so it kind of made it a personality guitar at that point.

VG: You have the Carl Perkins Stratocaster. Was that from the Class of '55 session?

Marty: Yeah. I had just got a record deal and Perkins walked up to me at the end of this session and gave me a guitar! He calls his guitar his box! (laughing) Any guitar that Daddy Cat plays is his box. And he wrote me a note on the guitar that says, 'There's some good songs in this box and you're just the cat to go get 'em out of it.' (laughing again) I think it was kind of a vote of confidence to get my recording career started off and I'm real proud of that guitar.

VG: You have 1952 and 1955 Esquires, any significance to them?

Marty: Well, one of my favorite guitar dealers is a guy named Danny Shea up in New York City. He has supplied all the major Rock & Roll tours down through the years. He's the only guy I know who has the same phone number in New York for the last fifteen years (laughs). You go in his place and I've always said it looks like a Fender graveyard up there. He's got walls of vintage guitars, you know. So I asked, 'What's the hottest guitar you've got in the house right now?' and he pulled out this Esquire with the form-fitting case. He said, 'This is Mick Ronson's guitar. I sold it to him and he sold it back to me.' I bought that guitar because it's really the best Esquire I've ever heard. I think one of the best examples of that guitar's sound is a song we did called 'High On A Mountain Top.' Richard Bennett actually plays the part on there, but it just rips!

I got the jones; I did real good last year--you know, not buying guitars is a lot like being addicted to something and not doing it. I was doing just fine on the road last year. I'd swore I was not gonna buy one single guitar. I did real good 'til about November. We went through Kansas City and this guy named Dave Schafer at Overland Guitars brought a couple of guitars to the coliseum we were playing and this was just a great Esquire [the 1955]. I didn't need it, still don't need it, but it was just one of those I had to have (laughing).

VG: You've got a 1958 Tele that [songwriter[ Paul Kennerley gave you?

Marty: Kennerley's another guy--all my friends have great taste in guitars. We were writing this song called "Hey Baby" that was on one of our records. Funny how when you're writing songs, whatever guitar is in your hands inspires you to go a certain way, melodically. This particular 1958 Tele--that's the year I was born--I loved the finish on it. The guitar solo, we wrote on this guitar. We went to lunch and came back and he says, "This is your guitar."

VG: How about the Blue Floral Tele?

Marty: That's just a Japanese copy. I've got three paisley's right now, but I'm really in search for a classic floral Tele. But that's as close as I've come for now.

VG: How about the Paisley Tele with the B-Bender, did Duane Marrs put that on there too?

Marty: Yeah, but there's a young guy out there named Keith, I think Duane kind of supervised it, but it was this guy's idea. He's one of these young guys that has hung out with the masters, and he's got this attitude,he said, "I can put a pedal on a water tank." (laughing) Danny Shea and me had talked about it, actually Shea gave me this guitar. So many of these pull-string guitars have a real short, [pull] stiff feel to them. If you've ever played that "Clarence" guitar, it has a long flowing feel. A lot of the licks that Clarence did, it would not have sounded the same on another guitar. It's just something about the pull and the magic of that guitar. Well Keith, he matched it to the lick. I mean, it's just the coolest pulling guitar since "Clarence" I've ever played.

VG: Is there a "Little E" bender on that too that drops down a half step?

Marty: Right

VG: How about your Gold Sparkle Tele; that's beautiful.

Marty: I love that guitar! [For] the cover of one of my albums, Fred Stewart loaned me a guitar that was out there at the Fender factory. It was actually the first Sparkle Tele they made for Buck Owens. That's a magic guitar. I really fell in love with that guitar....I did not want to take that one home (laughs). Fred, just out of the blue, sent me a guitar. He made me a guitar, put a pull-string in it and sent me one that looks like Buck Owens' sparkle Tele. It's a fine guitar, beautiful! One of those that I really hate to play, because I bang guitars pretty bad, belt buckles and stuff. I really hate to play it [because] it's one of the prettiest guitars I have.

VG: Did Buck Owens give you the red, white and blue acoustic?

Marty: Buck gave me that.

VG: Is that a Harmony?

Marty: No, I was told it was one of the good ones (laughing). It's got a sterling silver engraved pickguard on it.

VG: You have a Gibson J-180 that looks like it's dressed in Nudie Suit.

Marty: That's the one with the hand-tooled leather. I always thought those guitars looked cool. Elvis had one, Buddy Holly, Hank Snow. It was a look at a lot of the old Country cats and early Rockers had and I liked the look of them. They [Gibson] gave me one and I really liked that guitar, but I gave it to Bob Dylan when he played here as kind of a "welcome to Nashville." They sent me another one and I had it covered. I knew it [the leather] would probably kill the guitar. I thought it would make a good video guitar (laughs). I had a buddy of mine named Terry Lankford, who's a saddle maker out in Franklin, Tennessee tool it.

VG: How about your Cowboy guitar?

Marty: I have no idea what kind it is. The first guitar I ever had was [like] that guitar and it was destroyed in my childhood. A couple of years ago I was told that there was a little boy outside the bus with his mom and he wanted me to sign his guitar, so I said send it in. I'm a sucker for a little kid with a guitar on the road that wants it signed or whatever. I just see me at somebody else's concert a long time ago. When they brought me this guitar, I couldn't believe my eyes. It was the very same guitar that I'd had when I was a kid, and I'd never even seen a picture of one in all these years. I invited them on the bus and I wrote my phone number down on the back of this guitar. I told him, "You're just a little bitty fellow; some day you're gonna want a real guitar. When you get ready for a real guitar, if this one's still in real good shape, I'll trade you a guitar for this guitar because I'd like to have one back." So, that's what I did. [Later] I got a call from his mom, went out and bought the kid a guitar and gave it to him and he gave me his little yellow guitar.

VG: You've got a 1954 Fender Lap steel.

Marty: I bought it off a guy that used to play fiddle with me named Dale Morris. I actually bought it so I could take the pickup out and put it in that Tele with the B-Bender (laughs).

VG: Most of these significant guitars you use on a pretty regular basis don't you?

Marty: All my guitars get used at some point Whether it's writing songs, videos, recording, television or concerts. That's the lick about my guitars--I make 'em work. I find a reason for them to work. I like that.

VG: What kind of amps do you use onstage?

Marty: Silver face Twins, that's mostly what I use. In the studio, I have a little black face Deluxe and I have a little Princeton Reverb that I use in the dressing room for rehearsals, but mostly geared up Twins that Steve Wilson, who's the guitar tech for the Kentucky Headhunters soups up. He used to work for Stevie Ray [Vaughan]. They're early to mid-Seventies amps.

The best guitar tone I ever had going in my life [was when] we had a couple old Twins, a bassy one for the bottom and kind of a bright one for the top and dialed 'em in together. We were playing a football stadium in Salem, Virginia; we did our sound check and, all of a sudden, it starts raining and it turned black! This was in a period of about fifteen minutes. The next thing I know, a tornado hit and all our amps went up in the air. So my tone went up in the air and died. I like the tone I have now but I've never been able to match the one that went up in the air. (laughs) It's over there in Virginia somewhere!

VG: How do you split your signal to run multiple amps?

Marty: I use a Morley pedal and an MXR distortion and I run the Morley pedal basically wide open and set the amps around that.

VG: Any other effects?

Marty: Yeah, a cord (laughing), that's about all I use. I love effect guitar, but I've tried that Clarence White guitar through every effect that you could possibly buy [and] for my money's worth, that guitar sounds best when you just plug in and go. It don't need it.

VG: Tell us about your mandolin.

Marty: It's a copy of a Gibson I bought when I first came to town. I've tried to electrify that mandolin. The reason I never played mandolin on stage is because I couldn't find anything worth a flip. Gibson gave me an F-5 a couple of years ago. They gave me and Bill Monroe one on the stage of the Opry. I've just not played it much 'cause I couldn't get it to sound right but, last trip, my sound man came to my house and said, "You really need to be playing the mandolin, I've got an idea."So he took it downtown and somebody put a Baggs pickup in it and I plugged it in through a Trace Elliot amp. I don't care how loud the band plays, it still holds up. I think for the first time in my life I'm finally get to play some Rock & Roll mandolin.

VG: "Marty Stuart Visits The Moon" on the Love and Luck album really showcases your mandolin playing. It was also nominated for a Grammy this year; congratulations.

Marty: Yes, thank you.

VG: You mentioned getting a mandolin on stage at the Opry, didn't you also receive a Rich & Taylor guitar on that stage?

Marty: Yeah. It's an incredible guitar. Usually I'm not too much of a fan of ceremonial guitars, but this guitar has my name in the neck in [mother of pearl and it has a pearl pickguard. It has Flatt, Scruggs and Bill Monroe hand painted on the top of the guitar. It's phenomenal, I mean it's incredible, so pretty to look at.

VG: It is true you brought a Bill Monroe pick home from a concert that gave you inspiration?

Marty: Yeah (laughs). He was the first guy I ever saw live. I got his autograph after the show and I asked him if he'd give me a pick, so he gave me this old wore out white, three corner pick. And then I carried it to school every single day.

VG: Your new bus is designed after Ernest Tubb's, do you also have his original bus.

Marty: Well I never owned the bus. The last tour bus that Tubb had was like a 1972 [Silver] Eagle called the "Black Hornet; the "Green Hornet" was the real famous one. The "Black Hornet" was the last, and we drove it 'til it got so tired--the best we could figure, it had about three and a half million miles on the body. You know, 1955 Cadillacs are beautiful but, if you taken 'em out and tour 'em every day of their life, they're gonna fall apart no matter how pretty or classy they are. So we took the bus back to Dean Tubb, who owned it and I think it retired to a bus lot over in South Nashville. Boy we had some great times in that bus!

VG: Didn't you design your bus after that one?

Marty: Yeah, it looks like a rolling bunk house. It's a Rock & Roll cowboy bus.

VG: You have an obviously deep love for the Grand Ole Opry and country music in general.

Marty: Well, I love the Opry. It's an institution that I believe in. I think the Opry's at a crossroads. I think to survive, it's going to have to find a new audience to go along with it's traditional audience and the fan base that it already has. A lot of folks that went to see the Opry when it was in its prime sit at home and watch it on the couch these days. They're signing all the right people, I just hope some day that we can bring a few people in there to help watch it.

Outside of my first time to play there when I was a kid with Lester Flatt, I think the most exciting thing happened two or three weeks ago. Bashful Brother Oswald had been out there for fifty-six years. He's the guy that played Dobro with Roy Acuff on "Wabash Cannonball," "The Great Speckled Bird" and all those classic songs. I asked him a while back how long [he'd] been an Opry member. And he said, "I'm not an Opry member." And I couldn't believe it! So I took that out to the Opry and talked to the people that run it; it took about a year to get it done, but I got to induct Bashful Brother Oswald into the Opry as a formal member after fifty-six years. Things like that happen at the Opry and that's what makes me love it out there.

VG: I saw a performance there last year where Earl Scruggs, Vince Gill, Ricky Skaggs, Alison Krauss, Roy Huskey, Jr., and yourself did a purely bluegrass set. Who's idea was that?

Marty: I think Vince had talked about it and Ricky and I had talked about it; it seemed to me that it was Skaggs' idea. Him or Vince, I really don't remember. What's so cool is we had all played music together, or at least at the same bluegrass festival in different bands, for most of our adult lives. It's nice just to not have to to be Country stars sometimes and just forget it all and be bluegrass pickers.

VG: I hear a blues feel in some of your stuff, being from Philadelphia, Mississippi (also the birthplace of Otis Rush), did you pick that up there too?

Marty: Sure! Muddy! Muddy [Waters] is the main guy. The lady that kept me and my sister, she loved Otis Redding but, as far as real blues, Muddy was the first guy.

VG: I read where you used to write for a fan magazine while you were between gigs.

Marty: Well, I was out with Johnny Cash and really historical things would happen around him and there were never any reporters around at the right time. So I thought, well you know, I'm gonna put it in my diary anyway, I'll just make it a matter of record out there. It was just simply a hobby. The Journal of Country Music, Country Music Magazine, they were my favorites.

VG: I understand you have a love for photography. Do you still do any of that?

Marty: Yeah, a whole lot.

VG: You even have some photo credits in Phil Kaufman's book, Road Mangler Deluxe [highly recommended], any good stories about him?

Marty: Well, Mangler was my first road manager. I think every band in the world that starts out on the road should probably get Mangler-trained {laughing). He's great! He knows every back alley, every interstate, every song, every picker, every poet, every sinner, every saint that ever stepped inside the music industry that really counts. We had a ball together. I really love Mangler, he's a great guy.

VG: I noticed on the "Marty Party" TV show on TNN you featured a mutual pal of ours, Leon Rhodes. That was great!

Marty: Leon is probably the best guitar player in Nashville. I mean, when I think of Leon Rhodes, I think about the Texas Troubadours, probably the hottest country band ever. But I also think about guys like Jimmy Bryant and Hank Garland. I think Leon's in that category. He's the caliber of player and he barely gets used out at the Opry any more. He has very few spots and that's a shame, that's a downright crime!

One of the things I'm doing with these "Marty Parties" is giving some pickers some exposure. I mean for years the guitar player was the main focus of attention, probably more so than the stars around here. You know, "Nashville Cats...clean as country water." Then all of a sudden songwriters starting getting famous, stars started getting more famous and nobody talked about the pickers anymore. So it's really a passion of mine to give some pickers the limelight again. Leon was on the first one, then [fiddle player] Vassar Clements and Uncle Josh Graves were on the second one, then Johnny Johnson [Chuck Berry] played keyboards with the Headhunters. So I want pickers to feel like they're welcome on that TV show.

VG: Anything else you'd like to say?

Marty: Trace Elliot. They're one of the best. We were talking about the mandolin; I think any acoustic player that has to deal with a band that plays with any volume whatsoever has a definite equation on his hands--how to follow the volume and get some kind of tone out of his instrument. Trace Elliot has solved a whole lot of my problems, both from the guitar and the mandolin standpoint. And, you know, I'm not endorsed or paid to say anything about them, just offering a helpful hint; if anybody might have this problem that might be something to check into.

Also, Brad Davis [Stuart's guitar player], he has as much ability as any young player I've seen in a long time. When he came to me, he had a lot of gadgets, a lot of ability, no identifiable tone and a lot of "want to." It's so cool to see players come into their own! Now I can hear fourteen guitar players and know which one's Brad Davis. He's kinda made a lick out of his Bigsby thing, he has a real identifiable tone with his Thunderfunk setup and his Tele with the Bigsby on it. He's not a lot of gadgets anymore.

It's nice to hear young players come by with an identifiable tone. So many guitar players all sound the same. It's all processing; a lot like singers around here. Everybody's making the same sound to get in the flow out there. If you're gonna take the time to learn to play and figure out who you are along the way, you need to find a tone that says who you are. And the licks should say the same thing. [Brad is] playin' his ass off! He's a great flat picker. Another thing about him, he told me the other day he was gonna have to bow out for a couple of weekends. He wants to go back to Winfield, Kansas--you know Brad's like me. He started playing bluegrass, a lethal flatpicker! So he's going back to Winfield to enter a flatpicking contest again. Man, there's something to be said for a real professional guy that feeds his family playing his axe, that still wants to go back and try it at a contest and make sure he's still sharp. He has my applause for that kind of thinking.

When it comes to applause, Marty Stuart is well stocked. As I was preparing this interview, I found out he would be at the Opryland hotel filming a tribute to the Country Music Hall of Fame for TNN, with Willie Nelson among others. I was invited to come and take some pictures with the wonderful TV lighting, so I jumped at the chance. Marty as was accommodating as ever and soon had to excuse himself to do a sound check. At that point, he got up with Willie's band, including the great Reggie Young on guitar. You would have thought they had rehearsed for weeks, doing a rendition of Nelson's "Valentine." Fred Newell [formerly with the Nashville Now Band and currently with Ralph Emery's new Morning Show Band] and I sat stunned as they played this song note perfect! This was not one of your Nashville guitar holders folks. If you get a chance to catch Marty at a local venue or you're in Nashville when he is playing at Opryland's Chevy Geo Theatre, do your ears a favor and go. You won't be disappointed, I promise!

By Dave Kyle