Transcript:
A Conversation with
Marty Stuart
Thursday, June 4, 1998

Paul:
Marty Stuart truly is multi-lingual when it comes to the languages of music. And he's fluent in all of them. He's as much at home pounding out a rocker as he is tearing his heart out in a sentimental song of love gone wrong.

Versatility such as Marty's can come only because his genuine love for all kinds of music is profound and total. He's mastered it all simply because he loves it all.

He's been at it since early years in his still-young life. Barely into his teens, he was already under the protective wings of bluegrass legend Lester Flatt. Not only did Stuart perform in Flatt's band, The Nashville Grass, but he also lived with Flatt and his wife for several years.

He later joined the Johnny Cash show, and soon after that, he was a solo performer. And what a performer he became!

While it's practically impossible to find a better bluegrass musician, when it comes to the other end of the spectrum, it's also practically impossible to find a better country-rocker.

When it comes to showmanship, all that's needed is to mention "Marty's Party" or to bring up the subject of his personal appearances with his good friend Travis Tritt.

But Marty also is a student and scholar of country music and its history. He's a serious--and ravenous--collector of country music memorabilia. And the scope of his knowledge of country music past and present is extraordinary. He knows and loves the subject.

If anyone in the Nashville music community knows and understands the importance and significance of The Carter Family, it's Marty Stuart.

Marty, thanks very much for your interest in and support of this project.

Marty Stuart:
You bet!

Paul:
I remember....many times, when I lived in Nashville, I'd go down to "The Old-Time Picking Parlor," and this youngster would come in and head on up to the bandstand and start knocking me out!

Marty Stuart:
I remember that place! I LOVED that place!

Paul:
I know! I did, too!

Marty Stuart:
Nashville's never had... Even though The Station Inn is cool, it never did have the atmosphere that that place had.

Paul:
I agree.

Marty Stuart:
I loved that place!

Paul:
Well...I just had to reminisce for a minute! But I know you want to talk about The Carter Family!

Marty Stuart:
The Carter Family! Let's preach!

Paul:
What do you remember about your first recollections of The Carter Family name and how important it was?

Marty Stuart:
Well, I've always been a pack-rat and collector. Once I got my sight set on something, I just kind of get too involved in it. Back when I was about...I think I was nine years old. I got a pretty good record player. And by then I had acquired probably 10 or 12 country records. That's all I had. But there was one record...

I'd go to the record store...I'd take money that I'd take from cutting yards...take to the record store. And find...I want that one next, that one next...who's Merle Haggard...what does that mean...And this one called The Original Carter Family, on Columbia--I'm sorry...Harmony.

Paul:
Right. Columbia's budget line.

Marty Stuart:
Yes. One of those old compilation records, you know. I just liked the picture on the front, you know? And I kept wanting it. Then, when I bought it and took it home, I thought, "God! This is the worst stuff I've ever heard! It's just so primitive sounding!" But the more I listened to it, the more it enchanted me. So, I'd say by the time I was 10 years old I was pretty dug into them.

But it wasn't really until I went to work with Cash--it was around June, Helen, and Anita--and we'd go up and play The Carter Fold--that I got the full-blown picture, you know? It went from black-and-white to Technicolor when that happened. Then, all of the sudden...you know, I was finding all these... At that time, nobody had released the border tapes onto disc or anything.

Paul:
Border Radio, right.

Marty Stuart:
Yes. And so June had all these, and she loaned them to me. And I remember one time going to the beach in Jamaica and sitting there all day long and listening to The Carter Family on Border Radio. And by the end of the day (LOL), I was saved!!

Paul:
You know, I kind of thought that maybe you would have picked up on some of that from your days with Lester Flatt, because the album that really pulled me into country music for the rest of my life was Songs of the Famous Carter Family by Flatt and Scruggs.

Marty Stuart:
Right. Well, he certainly talked about them. But, I think in truth it was Earl and Louise....Because they were required to do two albums a year for Columbia. And I think they found a wealth of things from A.P., with A.P.'s name on them...And so I think in truth it was Louise lining Earl and Lester up with the folk movement by way of The Carter Family more than it was Lester's interest. I know he LOVED Maybelle. Maybelle was his poker buddy. He used to talk like that.

Paul:
Wow!

Marty Stuart:
I loved Maybelle's guitar style, and had since I was a kid. And I had a chance with Lester to use that. Because Earl played that well...on "You Are My Flower" and "Jimmy Brown, The Newsboy." You're telling me! So, I actually had a chance to use that when I was with Lester.

Paul:
This is quite a coincidence, because later on this month, in conjunction with the Music Forum, we're going to be teaching Maybelle's guitar style on "Wildwood Flower" and "I'm Thinking Tonight of My Blue Eyes." I'm curious to know if you have any thoughts on those two songs?? And on Maybelle's guitar style.

Marty Stuart:
Well...It was simple and eloquent...like she was. But I think as far as guitar pieces go, for country music, I think "Wildwood Flower" is the "Amazing Grace" or "The Rock of Ages" of country guitar instrumentals.

Paul:
Beautifully said. I've heard it referred to as "The National Anthem of Country Music."

Marty Stuart:
Could be! Could be!! And as far as I'm concerned, she was our first and foremost guitar player, even beyond Jimmie Rodgers, Pop Stoneman, people like that. Maybelle was the first person to ever sit down at the table and lay it down, you know, as a real player.

Paul:
And to work out all those complicated leads that she did. And all of that was so beautifully structured, wasn't it!

Marty Stuart:
Oh YEAH! I recently discovered that...I always thought it was somebody else doing it...But I recently discovered that it was her playing the bottleneck guitar. Like on that old Rodgers' stuff. Go, Maybelle!!

Paul:
I'd heard that on one session she'd forgotten her bottleneck and borrowed a perfume vial from Sara, and they started recording. Then the vial broke and the recording studio soon reeked of Evening in Paris or something like that. Something that they laughed about.

Marty Stuart:
You know? I'm working on an album right now. My next record is called "The Pilgrim." And in my mind it starts on A.P.'s front porch.

Paul:
Oh, my gosh!

Marty Stuart:
And it quits in the 21st century.

Paul:
Oh, my gosh! What a concept!

Marty Stuart:
It's a real conceptual thing, and it came to me...I know you've been up there and been around all those folks...And at the little log cabin where A.P. was born. We went up there one day when it was spring, and what was left of this apple orchard was still standing there. Maybe one little branch had blossoms on it. So, I ate a handful of blossoms off this tree and picked a couple of dandelions, made some pictures beside the cabin, and went to Maybelle's house, June's house, and drank a bunch of her water, and played the show that night. And I thought, you know...I'm set now...And we played the Jimmie Rodgers Festival that year, too. You know? Sometimes you have to go back to the beginning. And, Lord knows, country music needs an enema right now!

Paul:
LOL!

Marty Stuart:
It's time to turn it around and just go back as far as I'm concerned to the heart and soul, see it through their eyes one more time.

Paul:
Bless your heart, Marty! So many of us feel the same way! And if something could be done with country radio and drag it out of the fixation it has with top-40...

Marty Stuart:
Well, you know? My position on this is...If they want to pose as pop radio, so be it. But rock and roll was smart enough to start a couple more formats, like an oldies station. There's an oldies rock and roll station in every town in America right now. And at some point country music is going to have to do that to supply its listeners, because there's a lot of people out there that want to hear these things that we're talking about.

Paul:
Absolutely! And to really dig into the history. I mean, when you're talking about The Carter Family, you're talking about the foundation stone of the whole industry!

Marty Stuart:
Well, they're the royalty of our business. They truly are royalty. And the people are still royal. I take people up to The Carter Fold to meet them, just to bathe them in that atmosphere up there. And Rita told me a story that I had no idea about. When they went over to do the Bristol sessions, A.P. talked to Eck, Maybelle's husband, about loaning...

Paul:
Right! She told me about this, too!

Marty Stuart:
Isn't that great?

Paul:
Go ahead and complete the story!

Marty Stuart:
Said he'd put in a corn patch for him as payment for borrowing the car so they could get to Bristol. What that tells me is that country music was started on a barter of a plow and corn!

Paul:
LOL Right!

Marty Stuart:
For a car! Isn't that cool??

Paul:
For the use of a car, for one trip. Yeah!

Marty Stuart:
Nobody knows out there in the world...I'm glad YOU know and I know that country music was founded on the good-will swap of a barter of a car for a plow for a corn patch. You've given me an idea. We should try to pull together some sort of a Carter Family Anecdote of the Day for the rest of this month. Well, I think that...and I've pushed very hard for this. I'm going to continue to push to see that Janette gets the Heritage Award. Lord! She deserves it!

Paul:
Oh, doesn't she, though!! Absolutely!

Marty Stuart:
And Joe is a treasure in himself.

Paul:
Yes.

Marty Stuart:
The whole world up there is just really, really wonderful.

Paul:
As you proceed with your various activities as a top personality and a top performer in this industry, do you ever think back on the comparable activities that The Carters had? In other words, while getting ready to go on the road, do you ever think of what they must have gone through to accomplish the same basic objective but without the structure of the industry, without any kind of support behind them, without any kind of Interstate highway system? That kind of stuff?

Marty Stuart:
Well, I kind of take it that it was all done by way A.P.'s vision. He was kind of the driving force. And, from all accounts, A.P. was not that great of a businessman. Or he wasn't that stern...he wasn't a "road Nazi" or anything like that. And so it was probably pretty loose! (LOL) At best.... And they were actually...The thing I think about is that every time they pulled that car out of the driveway to head wherever they were going, they were....it was like they had a hammer and a chisel driving it through granite that had never been touched before.

Paul:
That's what I think, too.

Marty Stuart:
They were absolutely on uncharted territory.

Paul:
They had nothing to model themselves after.

Marty Stuart:
The only thing they had to do was keep thinking about new songs and sing them to..."Well, here's another place over here that will have us." The only time I've felt that way, or even come close at being the first at ANYTHING...Gene Autry told me one time...he said, "I never said I was the best movie actor, never said I was the best singer. But I was FIRST, and that's all that matters!" LOL And I laughed at that statement.

But two or three years ago, I was in Europe, and Emmylou and Trisha Yearwood played Milan. And country music had never, ever, been performed in Milan. Never been a country show in Milan. And people...some people were in awe, some people couldn't get it...but there were a lot of people who came just to look at it. But I knew we were there for the first time. There really is a different feeling that goes along with being first time.

But, back to The Carters...They must have really treated it with reverence and the reverence it deserved. And also, I think they were probably like anybody else. According to the photographs, they dressed splendidly, even from the git-go. So I think they had a sense of stardom about them. And it doesn't take long when times are that hard to realize that a guitar and singing songs is a ticket out of the mountains to a little bit better times. So, I'm sure it didn't take them long to catch on that a guitar makes things happen.

Paul:
Well, they also viewed themselves, I guess, as guests when they came to town. Because they would often stay at the homes of strangers.

Marty Stuart:
That was a common practice with a lot of touring people back then. Earl Scruggs was telling me the other night, Lou Childre and Stringbean used to do that. Especially early in the morning, they'd see smoke coming out of some old chimney, and if it was the right-looking house, they'd stop and knock on the door. "Hello, Lou Childre and Stringbean from the world-famous Grand Ole Opry. You wouldn't happen to have a biscuit, would you?"

Paul:
My golly!

Marty Stuart:
LOL I mean, it's priceless stuff.

Paul:
Yes! It sure is!

Marty Stuart:
Now, let me ask YOU if you've noticed something. When Maybelle first got her guitar, the Gibson L-5, you might want to find out what was the name of the music store she bought it at. Which is a nice little tidbit. It slips my mind. Seems to me it was in Cincinnati. I can't say that's right. It had tuners on it. Tuning pegs, you know, that look like the ones on a banjo, that come out the back. And a friend had one identical to it. He's the one that pointed this out to me. And they didn't last very long. I mean it must not have lasted much longer, because the next set of photographs, you see she'd changed the tuning pegs out. To my knowledge, that was the only thing that was ever done to that guitar. But that's a HARDCORE piece of trivia! Finding the photograph with the backwards pegs on it.

Paul:
Right! I'll have to look for that.I understand you are in possession of one of the very, very RARE A.P. Carter signatures.

Marty Stuart:
I went up there...I collect...I've always collected autographs. I went up there, and you've gotta understand, that things just happen on their own and in their own time up there. And I went up there, and I approached...I always approach that land up there and those people like you would, say, on some of the holy ground on an Indian reservation.

Paul:
Absolutely!

Marty Stuart:
So, going into the Valley, I actually prayed, you know, that if it was supposed to be mine, I'd love to have it. And I was really, really wanting at that time of my life something that A.P. had touched. And so we went to the graveyard, did the whole round, said our respects. And Rita...I called a week or two ahead of time, you know, and she said, "Honey, I can't find a thing." And I mean we were getting ready to go on stage, seems to me like 20 or 30 minutes before we were to go on, this car pulls up in the black of night, and some girl just kind of stepped out. Like one of those intermediary people. And she said, "Joe's ex-wife thinks she's got Pap-paw's name on something if you want to come up to the house." And Rita said, "You'd better go!"

And so I just got in the car with this unknown person who didn't say one word to me on the way up to that house. And when I got there, she had it dug out. She said, "If you don't mind, I'd like to keep the rest of the page, but you can have the signature." And she took some scissors and cut it off. But I thought that was the way it works up there. Like the Indians--they appear from nowhere and then they disappear into nowhere.

Paul:
Wow! Isn't Rita priceless?

Marty Stuart:
She is, yes. And she has a big calling on her hands, a big job on her hands. People like you and me are voices out in the world, and we have to help her.

Paul:
She's going to be joining our forum staff. We're going to have her send us news about The Carter Fold and about the family every couple of weeks or so. We'll continue to feature that kind of information in this forum.

Marty Stuart:
Well, I tell you....I felt...if I hadn't done it with Johnny Cash, I couldn't have done it, because I know how pure Janette likes to keep it. But Cash went up there with his horns, and we played electric when I was with his band. But we filled the house a couple of times and made Janette some spending change for the rest of the season. And so last year, when I went up there with my band, we turned down as low as we could get, but I still felt like I was dancing in the middle of church or something! LOL

Paul:
Well, they've told me that the only two exceptions to the no-electrification policy were you and Cash, and those were special shows.

Marty Stuart:
Yes. And we accomplished it, because we filled the room up, and that's what I was going for. But, boy, that was hard on me! Because I know how pure Janette likes to keep it!

Paul:
Right! You have such a profound respect for them. It's such a...it's so thrilling to see that on the part of such a major artist today. Do you know of other artists who share that feeling with you?

Marty Stuart:
Well, I know Emmylou is there. Emmylou loves The Carter Family. I think Patty Loveless probably does. I know my wife, Connie, is a TREMENDOUS Sara Carter supporter. She is a HUGE Sara Carter fan! Yes, there are a lot.

Paul:
Do you have any personal favorites from the fabulous repertoire of The Carters?

Marty Stuart:
"Single Girl Married Girl" is good. "Solid Gone" is very good. "Diamonds In The Rough" tears my heart out. I just love A.P.'s singing on it. "Cyclone At Rye Cove," I love that one. I can't think....it's like Hank Williams--I can't think of a BAD one!

Paul:
I know! That's my thought, too. I've just gone through all nine volumes of the Rounder Victor reissues. And you go through those things, and there isn't a clinker in there!

Marty Stuart:
Even on up into...like when June, Helen, and Anita did their thing, "Sinking In the Low And Lonesome Sea," just one of the greatest things!

Paul:
Are you referring to the one on Liberty?

Marty Stuart:
I think that's the one. The words "Turkish revelry...." LOL That's pretty cool! But hands down, my favorite Sara Carter performance--ever--is on that Columbia Records album Historic Reunion, "Farther On."

Paul:
The Historic Reunion album! Isn't that a masterpiece??!!! Yes!! The first time I heard that, every hair on me just stood right on end!

Marty Stuart:
I've told Johnny Cash, and I told him again last night, I said, "Man...." See, he doesn't remember it! I said, "John, you're the one who put the sessions together," but that song...she wrote in the liner notes that she wrote it for Cash. But he never recorded it. And he should record that song. But, to me, that's Sara's finest performance. I agree. And I think it set the pace for the whole album. To me, it just jumps up there and cuts it right there, you know? Magic!

Paul:
Absolutely! I agree! And to think that Jack Clement was there as a visitor for those sessions! I would love to have been.

Marty Stuart:
Well, at least we can visit them by means of CDs. As a matter of fact, I think so much of that song that I have four copies of that CD--one for the bus, one for the car, one for the house, and one spare.

Paul:
I know the feeling! You say that Lester adored Maybelle.

Marty Stuart:
Yes.

Paul:
Did he ever talk about any of their songs, specifically? Did he ever make any comments about what an amazing song that was, or....

Marty Stuart:
I know that he sang "It Takes A Worried Man" a whole lot. And there's a song they did on an album called When The Saints Go Marching In...I think it was called "Troublesome Waters."

Paul:
Yes.

Marty Stuart:
That A.P. wrote. Lester would always say he thought that was one of the prettiest songs they ever recorded.

Paul:
Maybelle and the three daughters and Cash came up with a beautiful rendition of that thing, too.

Marty Stuart:
I tell you....you may or may not already know this...I think you'd have to check this with Earl...but I want to say "Jimmy Brown," but you'll have to check with Earl on this. Here's another tidbit for you. When they did Songs of the Famous Carter Family, Flatt & Scruggs, after they got through with the take...Maybelle, you know, was on all that stuff. She picked up...Earl would always say, "Well, that's pretty good, but I always loved the way you did it. Show me one more time," or something to that effect. She just picked up the instrument and was just quietly showing the ol' boys how she played it. Well, the engineer had the good sense to hit the button to get it on tape. And when you hear the record, you'll hear a little blip, and that's an edit where they took what she played and they inserted it, and then after the solo it comes back to the band.

Paul:
I think I know which one you're talking about. I think it's where the autoharp fades out and the guitar break comes in, followed by the autoharp fading back up. I think it's on "You Are My Flower." If that's it, I always wondered about that very obvious edit point.

Marty Stuart:
That's it, I think. But you need to confirm that with Earl or Louise.

Paul:
I'd love to do an entire interview sometime on just that album, because it was so important. I think it played an awfully big part in beginning to get some recognition for The Carters.

Marty Stuart:
Flatt & Scruggs kept the Carter catalog alive very well! Inside country music for a long time. It was kind of ironic that it was passed off to the Dirt Band and all those people, you know, "The Circle" record.

Paul:
Right

Marty Stuart:
There's always been...it's sort of like a mantle that gets passed down to a person to kind of carry the torch for them. From decade to decade.

Paul:
Yes. Well, that's one torch that NEEDS to be carried on and passed down, don't you think?

Marty Stuart:
Absolutely! Absolutely worthy of it!

Paul:
To those who are not tuned in to the importance of this type of music, what would be your advice as far as opening their minds to it?

Marty Stuart:
Well, I would say that if you're looking for country music in its purest, most natural form, almost in sacred form, it would be the music of The Carter Family. It really is a reflection of life...and a way of life that's truly not gone, but there's just so much to compete with now. It is truly the purest point that country music will ever have.

Paul:
Yes. I wonder what it must have been like when they were working up new material. Have you ever tried to envision that?

Marty Stuart:
No. They pretty much had a formula sound. It was like a good band that has a good sound. When a new song comes along, it's pretty easy to figure out who's going to play...well, we KNEW who was going to play lead on it...it was just a matter of autoharp or guitar or who's going to sing and if the song lends itself to Sara or Maybelle. So it was probably--other than arguing over harmony parts (LOL)--it was probably pretty easy to figure out.

Paul:
The choice of material and the research that A.P. went through, under the circumstances--with no group of publishing companies in town to present them with new material--that must have been a back-breaking task, don't you think?

Marty Stuart:
It was either that or a great excuse to get out of the house! LOL Or one of the most hell-bent missions I've ever seen to get a song!

Paul:
LOL Well said! Marty, thank you very much! I hope we can get you back here sometime to talk just about you and your career!

Marty Stuart:
Any time you like. We'll set it up.

Paul:
Thank you again, Marty. I've really enjoyed this. I especially appreciate your doing this at a time when we're all mourning over the death this week of Helen Carter. I know that you and Connie Smith, your wife, are in grief. You worked closely with her during your days with Johnny Cash, and she was a dear friend. She had a tremendous impact on all who knew her, and the sadness is great in Nashville tonight. And all over the world, for that matter. We thank you. Goodnight, everyone. Thanks for joining us.

Also available:
Marty Stuart biography